Multimedia Toolkit 2/Multimedia Toolkit 2.iso/imagine/text/archive.11

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 130.8 KB | 3,283 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XI
Aug. 27 '91 - Sep. 14 '91

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Subject: Can anyone comment on the current DCTV software
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 10:03:13 JST
From: [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know about when the next level of software is being
released for DCTV?  I recall that it was mentioned in the July issue
of AmigaWorld.  The article said something about the software would
need 5 M of ram.  Does anyone know more specific details?  I ask
because I am planning to mail order a DCTV and perhaps I should get
some RAM soon as well. My current conifguration is a 3000 with
2M chip and 2M fast static page column RAM.

Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
   Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.

##

Subject: 24-bit print programs
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 08:46:09 -0400
From: [e-mail] (BRANHAM,JOSEPH FRANKLIN)

Sorry to drift off the subject a bit, but does anyone know a program that
will print 24-bit IFF's?

Hopefully some useful software--and not a Desktop Publishing Program :)

Frank Branham

##

Subject: Cycle Tour
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 11:22:27 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

Howdy.

There has been some recent discussion of Imagine vs. LightWave on the list
lately. I found the 'arguments' for each interesting. Strengths as well as
weakness were pointed out for each.

The one thing that I did NOT see mention of is the CYCLE editor of Imagine.
The amazing power of this editor should not be over-looked!

Consider an athlete running the 100-yard dash. Sure he has acceleration and
deceleration over the course of the path he runs, but not like anything that
could be acheived with a spline envelope in LightWave! The geometry and
positioning of the objects that make up his body group move in an entirely
different way at the beginning and end of his run.

In an example of my own, I have a robot that breaks into a run and then stops,
among other things. (He kind of looks like a Remington shaver on ostrich legs,
mapped with digitized rust) For that particular run, I have THREE cycle
objects: One taking the first three steps from a standing postion, one running,
and one 'stuttering' to a stop with lots of 'heavy weight' compensation.

What my point is, is that you do not need to think of the cycle editor as
the 'thing that makes CYCLES'. It is GREAT for creating complicated motions
of articulated groups that may occur only ONCE over the course of the anim.
And of course, it doesn't apply to only 'human-like' forms, but animals, bugs,
machines, solar systems, parts of larger objects (like a hand), etc.

Another trick using this method involves SNAPSHOT in the Staging editor:
If you've finished and saved a cycle object (say, the 2nd 'running' cycle in
example above) and then you want to create the third 'stopping' cycle knowing
that it has to match the last key-frame postion  of the previous one, load
the previous one into the stage, go to the last frame of it's cycle, then
SNAPSHOT it and load that snapshot into the first key-frame ot the cycle
editor to start the new cycle. (This could be done anywhere in the middle
of a cycle as well, for those special extra-confusing complicated moves.)

Hope this helps with some ideas out there!

AP.



##

Subject: imagine vs. lightwave
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 10:43:46 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Edward Chadez)

Mark, et. al.,

When I wrote a note a little while back comparing Lightwave to Imagine, I
had no intention of starting any flame war on the two products.

I was just trying to point out a few special effects that I'd like to see
in Imagine and used Lightwave for reference.

Sorry if anyone thought I was throwing mud at either program. :-)

Edward Chadez
 -Amiga3000-

--
+--//-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|\X/ [e-mail]/Edward Chadez                CARL Systems(303)861-5319|
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

##

Subject: Re: imagine vs. lightwave
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 14:17:39 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> When I wrote a note a little while back comparing Lightwave to Imagine, I
> had no intention of starting any flame war on the two products.

I considered it more of a constructive exchange of program capabilities
with the hope to better understand the deficiencies of each and how they
could be improved in the future. :-} The smiley is for the wording, I'm
serious about the content.

> Sorry if anyone thought I was throwing mud at either program. :-)

I certainly didn't think so.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Imagine Compendium version C (new!) now on ftp
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:07:46 EDT
From: Sandy Antunes <[e-mail]>

Hello!  Well, the latest compendium of postings from this news group,
collected edited and indexed, are now availible from hubcap and ab20.
I'm appending the Intro and Index for full details.  Comments or
requests, as always, may be emailed to me...
                              sandy
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]     Sandy Antunes, El Loco d'Waupelani
  it's 2am... do you know what time it is?      -------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            The Imagine Compendium, version C
                (8/27/91)

          ImagineComp: General articles, posts, and miscellany

            edited by Sandy Antunes ([e-mail])

========================   INDEX   ==========================================
(new entries are in lowercase, old (version B) entries are all capitals)

a. Intro to this edited compilation, by myself (Sandy Antunes)
b. Intro to the Imagine mailing list, by Steve Worley
c. Comment by Colin Stobbe
1.      Accelerating a Rotating Object, by Jim Lange:
2.      ANTI-ALIASING (and the jaggies), by Steve Menzies:
3.      ATTRIBUTES- fixes, by Dave Schreiber:
4.      ATTRIBUTES- LIST, by Steve Worley:
5.      ATTRIBUTES-some sources for, by Mark Thompson:
6.      ATTRIBUTES- set to zero, by Dave Schreiber
7.      Avoiding Intro pic, by Duane Fields:
8.      Avoiding Intro pic II, by Steven Webb:
9.      BACKDROPS/FRONTDROPS, by Steve Worley:
10.     BAR COMMANDS, by Jim Lange:
11.     BEVELLED EDGES I, by Steven Webb:
12.     BRUSH WRAPS I, by Bill Squier:
13.     BRUSH WRAPS II, by Mike Halvorsen:
14.     BRUSH WRAPS III, by [e-mail]:
15.     BRUSH WRAPS IV, by Scott Sutherland:
16.     BRUSH WRAPS V-- a corrosion brush wrap, by Matt Feifarek:
17.     BRUSH MAPS, by Steve Worley (a treatise on the subject):
18.     BUMP MAPPING, by Udo Schuermann:
19.     BUMP MAPPING II, by Sean Schur:
20.     BUMP MAPPING III, by Mark Thompson:
21.     CAMERA FOCAL LENGTH, by Richard Nollman:
22.     CAMERA FOCAL LENGTH II, by Udo Schuermann:
23.     Changing World Size II, by Udo Schuermann:
24.     Clouds and Fog, by Marc Rifkin:
25.     Complex Models, by Steve Worley:
26.     CYCLE/DETAIL GROUPS, by Helge Egelund Rasmussen:
27.     Extruding along a path, by Sean Schur:
28.     Filter Brushes, by Udo Schuermann:
29.     Fracture, Split, and Taut in Detail Editor, by Steve Worley:
30.     GLASS- The Art Of Glass, by Steve Worley:
31.     LASERS & SPECIAL EFFECTS I, by Sandy Antunes:
32.     LASERS AND SPECIAL EFFECTS II, by Edward Chadez:
33.     Light Brightness, by Steve Worley:
34.     Light Placement, by Don Whitaker:
35.     MERGE, by Steve Worley:
36.     METALS, by Mike Halvorsen:
37.     METALS II, by Mark Thompson:
38.     Mirrors, by Steve Worley:
39.     Morphs, Mark Thompson:
40.     Movement control, by Steve Menzies:
41.     PATHS I, by Stephen Menzies:
42.     PATHS, by Steve Worley and Rick Rodreguez:
43.     Planets made by Imagine, by Steve Worley:
44.     QUICKER RENDERING, by Steve Worley:
45.     RENDERING TIMES, by Stephen Menzies:
46.     RESIZING (AND AVOIDING SPIKES), by Scott Sutherland:
47.     RETRACKING THE CAMERA, by ???????:
48.     ROTATING, by Udo Schuermann:
49.     Shadows on mapped surfaces, by Steve Worley:
50.     SKIN, by Kevin Goroway:
51.     SLICE I, by Kevin Goroway:
52.     Slice II, by Colin Stobbe;
53.     SNAPSHOT I, by ?????:
54.     SNAPSHOT II, by Scott Sutherland:
55.     Starfields I, by Matt Feifarek:
56.     Starfields II, by Juan Trevino:
57.     TEXTURE AXIS, by [e-mail]:
58.     TEXTURES, by Steve Worley (a full treatise on the topic):
59.     Wall Paintings, by Udo Schuermann:
60.     Walls I, by Mark Thompson:
61.     Walls II, by Steve Worley:
62.     WORLD SIZE I, by ???????
63.     World Size II, by Steve Worley:

----------------------------------------------------------
(in second part, ImagineAppendix)

  APPENDIX A:  DETAIL TUTORIAL (by Steve Worley)

  APPENDIX B:  FORMS TUTORIAL (by Steve Worley)

  APPENDIX C:  VIDEOTAPE
    i) dumping to videotape
    ii) comments on dumping to videotape
    iii) more comments on dumping to videotape
  APPENDIX D:  CENTAUR TAPE:
    i) review
    ii) second review
  APPENDIX E:  SURFACE MASTER
    i) Advertisement
    ii) Review 1
    iii) Review 2
    iv) Additional Details
  APPENDIX F: TTDDD (an excellent shareware package).
    i) getting coordinates with TTDDD.
    ii) making threads.
  APPENDIX G:  WAY COOL PROJECTS
    i) extruding picture
    ii) rolling sphere
    iii) 3-D font
  APPENDIX H: Credits and email addresses

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
a) Introduction to this compendium, by Sandy Antunes:

    Hello.  Welcome to the third version of the Imagine Compendium.
This collection consists of postings to the imagine mailing list, and is
clearly at book length at this point.   It is an edited, indexed, and
condensed subset of the 621,681 byte (compressed!) complete archives
which are availible in their entirety at hubcap.clemson.edu.  It represents
many people's suggestions, advice, and ideas.  This posting is freely
redistributable except that it may not be sold or distributed for profit.
I have tried to keep citations of the original authors with each posting.
However, I have edited many of the postings, most notably in taking out
chunks of intro header, quoted earlier postings, and .sig files (and a bit
of spelling errors).  I take responsibility for any muddling of information
this may cause.  Neither I nor the original authors are liable for damages,
however-- you use this collection at your own risk. :)
    If anyone notices an error or an incorrect citation, please email me
([e-mail]) so that I may change this for future versions.
Also, if you want to take over this editing project for future years, please
let me know, as I am entering my thesis work and may not have time to keep
this up.
    In general the latest version will be posted to abcfd20.larc.nasa.gov
(128.155.23.64) in the /incoming/amiga directory and to hubcap.clemson.edu
(130.127.8.1) in the /pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/TEXT directory, under the
name ImagineComp##x.lzh, where ## is the year of that edition and x is the
version: a,b,c, etc. I will announce when a new version is posted to the
imagine mailing list.  I do not expect to update this terribly frequently,
perhaps every few months.
       There are two sections, kept seperate to make reading easier.  The
compendium is lharced to save on space and make distribution easier.
The main body is "bread and butter" Imagine advice.  The second section
contains the appendices, consisting of Steve Worley's Detail and Forms
tutorials, imagine-related topics and projects, as well as a list of
contributor email addresses.  All material should be current with the
latest release of Imagine 1.1.  The Index is exactly like the respective
section headings, so you can use grep, editor searches and the like to skip
through this document.  ImagineComp.91b headlines (the previous version)
are all in upper case; the newer entries are lower cased.  Therefore, if you
merely wish to update your version, attack this at will with a text editor
to cut out the reruns.

##

Subject: Camera path scaling problem
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:28:09 CST
From: shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)

I haven't seen this problem before.  As you probably recall, I usually
render 24 bit images as stills.  However, I wanted to play with animation
(one of my first trials at this) and the simplest way to start was with
a flyby of a static scene.  Twice I've built a scene to fly through (well
actually I did this once about 6 months ago with 1.0 and it seemed to
work fine at that time).  Then I added a path (once open, once closed) in
the stage editor.  After assigning the camera to the path in the action
editor, a return to the stage scene reveals a bazaar occurence:  All the
items are now tall and skinny.  The transformation requestor reveals that
they are all now something in the neighborhood of .08 x .08 x 32.  I
figured I did something dumb and changed it back to 32 x 32 x 32.  The
objects returned to normal.  Then selecting goto and the frame resulted
in a return to this flat object problem.  I tried again and saved the
scene, but to no avail.  The only thing that would stop it was to remove
the path from the camera's path, which kind of precludes the fly-by :-)

If this isn't a bug, then I'm obviously doing something wrong.

Any ideas?

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Rick Tillery            uunet.uu.net!uokmax!occrsh!shrapnel!rtillery |
|                                                                       |
| "I'd rather be ray-tracing...and with my multitasking Amiga, I AM!!!" |
|  ========== Always willing to trade 24 bit and/or GIF pics ========== |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/

##

Subject: Complete archive now available
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 10:11:47 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

The archived messages from this group has received a little facelift.  Hubcap
should now have a complete set of archives from Jan. 8 - Aug. 26.  For those
of you that have downloaded the old files here are the changes that were
made:

1) Archive files 1-4 were replaced with files 00-05.  The new files fill in
   some holes that existed before.  Many thanks to Doug Dyer for providing
   the old version of the archives, they helped many of us through the
   learning stage of Imagine.  These new files replace Doug's original
   archives, but I am still grateful to him for providing those files and
   also the anonymous ftp site to put them on.  Thanks Doug!!

2) Archive files 6-9 were renamed to 06-09.  No need to download these files
   if you already have them.

3) New archive file 10 has been uploaded, and makes the archive current
   through Aug. 26.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the official information about the archive files.  They can be found
on hubcap.clemson.edu (130.127.8.1) in the directory
pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/TEXT.  The archives are stored in 2 different
formats: Unix compress format (.Z) and lharc format (.lzh).


Here are the dates that can be found in each of the files:

imagine.archive.00 / imagine_archive_00.lzh          Jan.  8 - Jan. 31

imagine.archive.01 / imagine_archive_01.lzh          Feb.  1 - Feb. 26

imagine.archive.02 / imagine_archive_02.lzh          Feb. 27 - Mar. 10

imagine.archive.03 / imagine_archive_03.lzh          Mar. 10 - Mar. 25

imagine.archive.04 / imagine_archive_04.lzh          Mar. 25 - Apr. 17

imagine.archive.05 / imagine_archive_05.lzh          Apr. 18 - May   9

imagine.archive.06 / imagine_archive_06.lzh          May   9 - Jun.  6

imagine.archive.07 / imagine_archive_07.lzh          Jun.  6 - Jul. 14

imagine.archive.08 / imagine_archive_08.lzh          Jul. 14 - Jul. 25

imagine.archive.09 / imagine_archive_09.lzh          Jul. 25 - Aug.  7

imagine.archive.10 / imagine_archive_10.lzh          Aug.  7 - Aug. 26


If you have any questions or comments regarding the archives, contact
Marvin Landis ([e-mail]).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope everyone can put these archives to good use.  Maybe someday soon I will
write a program to access these archives in a better way.  What might be
interesting is to use Impulse's new product Foundation to read these text files
and provide a nice user interface for accessing them in a logical manner.
With Hypertext and AREXX capabilities, a very interesting interface should be
possible.  Anyone else got any other ideas?

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]

##

Subject: OK, Now howzabout the Firecracker?
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 14:50:39 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Brian Bishop)

  Well, now that I have stirred up a (little) trouble with my questions about
Imagine vs. LightWave, how about someone with a Firecracker-24 giving a
quick mini-review? My local computer stores are all willing to order it for
me, but none of them have it in stock for me to look at. (As a side issue -
is it worth paying $50 extra to the store in order to have somewhere to
'take it back to'? That's the extra $$ it will cost if I let the store order
it vs. getting it mail-order....I am undecided. The store has been very gracious
to me in the past, yet isn't having stock on-hand one of the benefits of going
to a store vs. mail-order??).

  Has anyone seen both the Firecracker and Colorburst?? Are they comparable??


  Brian

##

Subject: Re: Complete archives now available
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 16:36:56 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

For space economy, why don't we use one format, with the unix utility
available on hubcap?  THe two compressions together are only slightly
smaller than no compression at all.

We will be organizing hubcap ftp soon, so please email me your suggestions
folks that will help the group.

I was thinking of moving PICTURES out of the subdirectory and providing
main directories for other 3D formats such as lightwave.  They can all
share the PICTURES directory.

Just things like the above and house cleaning.  Since I was in a coma over the
summer, lemme know.


Good luck Martin...

--
    -Doug "going to die in a skydiving event soon..." Dyer
     [e-mail]
     ".signature 'O fun"

##

Subject: MirrorProject
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 0:28:17 EET DST
From: Juha Kallioinen <[e-mail]>

 I've just uploaded the objects for the MirrorRoom picture in project form
to hubcap.clemson.edu

 You can locate them in the directory /pub/amiga/incoming/IMAGINE/PROJECTS/

Have fun !
-Juha

--
o------------------------o-----o-------------------------------------------o
| [e-mail] /   __ |  Those who can't write, write manuals.    |
| Juha Kallioinen      / __/// |                                           |
o---------------------o  \\X/  o-------------------------------------------o

##

Subject: More bribes
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 15:07:41 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

To keep the uploads coming, I again offer a bribe. This time it's a 4
color IFF that is a 2000 by 800 picture of a Coke can label. You can
see it in my picture titled "Craftsman."

The label is VERY high in detail; every line and letter is clearly
defined, so the resultant can looks VERY accurate: you can even zoom
in full screen. The image is about 100K uncompressed. I made it with
Digiview and a LOT of hand retouching in DPaint.

So when there are more exciting uploads, I'll be happy to put up the
IFF. My previous bribes worked really well!

-Steve



##

Subject: DCTV and Imagine questions
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 14:38:06 JST
From: [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

I ordered a DCTV unit from Creative Computers today.  I am already thinking
about how I want to use it with Imagine and the other software packages that I
possess.  Initially, I want to create some basic animations of
geometric objects orbiting each other and than place the animation over
a digitised image from DCTV.  Is this easily done?  Would I have to
map the DCTV image to a plane in Imagine or is there any easier way?

I would like to get in contact with other DCTV user's on the list if possible.

Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
   Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.

##

Subject: Re: DCTV and Imagine questions
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 09:08:07 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Manjit Bedi writes:
> I ordered DCTV.  I want to create some basic animations of
> geometric objects orbiting each other and than place the animation over
> a digitised image from DCTV.  Is this easily done?  Would I have to
> map the DCTV image to a plane in Imagine or is there any easier way?

Mapping to a plane is probably the best bet because although you could
do the compositing in DCTV, it would be a manual and laborious process
doing it for every frame. The only animation support DCTV currently has
is a batch converter 'ifftodctv' which will turn your 24bit IFFs into
DCTV format. By using the 'spat' script command, the conversion can be done
for an entire animation (seperate frames of course). Use something like:
spat ifftodctv anim.frame??? -w704 -h480 -d3
This will convert a series of frames named anim.frameXXX where XXX is a
numerical sequence indicating frame number. Use a width of 704 or less so
animation programs can compile the frames without screwing up. The d3
indicates a conversion to 3 bitplanes. You can do 4 for better quality,
but the animation will run smoother and faster with 3. The converted frames
will be named anim.frameXXX.dctv. Hope this helps.

PS. When you get your DCTV, don't forget to give Digital Creations a call
    and hound them about 24bit brush support. There currently isn't any.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: OK, Now howzabout the Firecracker?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 10:17:21 -0400
From: "-R-" <jake@melmac.u>

#define Soap_Box TRUE

   I used to work for an Amiga dealer.  I don't now because we had to close the
retail part of the company.  We tried to provide the best service and support
possible.  Many people have told me that we were the best dealer in the area.
Customers from other dealers said that their dealer recommended us if they
couldn't find or fix a hardware problem or wern't knowlageable about a software
package.  We were also the leading retailer of GVP products in the country.
We were not making any money selling hardware and software because we
tried to provide the support without charging any more for the products.  Our
prices were as close to mail order as we could cut them, in fact our prices on
GVP products were sometimes below mail order.
   Part of the problem we had was that people would demo things in our store
(we had nearly everything for graphics) and then try to save the $50 bucks or
so that pays our rent by ordering things from mail order houses.  They would
then bring the things to us when they didn't work to get us to tell them if
they needed to send it back or not.  We even had people come to the store for
support of software that they had no manuals for and couldn't figure out.
   This is not the single reason we closed our doors but it did make the diff-
erence (IMHO) between a retail store that could survive the recession and
the graphics bussness that is still thriving.  This is not a flame (really)
I just thought I should remind everyone that Amiga hardware and software is
among the cheapest in the industry and Amiga dealers don't make that much money
off of every sale. <--(sounds pompous but I think you know what I mean)
I am not saying that all dealers give great support and have low prices, and
I don't work for a dealer any more so this is not sales propaganda.
   I think a lot of our former customers are wondering just what happened
to their dealer and had no idea how small the profit margin is on Amiga stuff.
#define Soap_Box FALSE

On an imagine related note...  Is there any way to change the camera focal
length so that objects in the backround are out of focus?   -R-

[e-mail]   Rob Borsari     "Bourne to be wild"


##

Subject: Re: OK, Now howzabout the Firecracker?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 10:34:36 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> I just thought I should remind everyone that Amiga hardware and software is
> among the cheapest in the industry and Amiga dealers don't make that much
> money off of every sale.

I was actually surprised when the original poster said that it was only $50
more to buy it from the dealer. Thats only about 5% over the cheapest mail
order deal. For such a low mark-up, the support the dealer will give you is
a bargain.

> On an imagine related note...  Is there any way to change the camera focal
> length so that objects in the backround are out of focus?   -R-

While you can probably change the camera zoom, Imagine does not (to my
knowledge) support depth of field effects. If the background is static,
render it seperately, blur it in your favorite paint program, and then use
it as a backdrop to your forground rendered objects.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: OK, Now howzabout the Firecracker?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 10:35:25 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

>> On an imagine related note...  Is there any way to change the camera focal
>> length so that objects in the backround are out of focus?   -R-
From: [e-mail]   Rob Borsari     "Bourne to be wild"

>While you can probably change the camera zoom, Imagine does not (to my
>knowledge) support depth of field effects. If the background is static,
>render it seperately, blur it in your favorite paint program, and then use
>it as a backdrop to your forground rendered objects.
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Seems I remember some message on this list quite a while back mentioned
simulating the layers of gauze that filmmakers use between backdrop models
to soften or blur, say, mountain backdrops for an illusion of distance.
This can be done in various layers so that an illusion of gradually increasing
distance is achieved.  (I forget the jargon of filmmakers, but I hope you
get the idea.)

In Imagine perhaps this gauze layer could be modeled with a semi-transparent
plane, maybe brushwrapped and/or textured appropriately.  I haven't thought
much about it, but this is only an 'idea starter'.  I will try to find
and repost that message.


         __         Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XLib'er/Amigan]
\\ /\\ /\\ //_       [e-mail]          MDSSC - Houston
 \/--\// \//__       Hobby:"Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and
     //                     Animations To Support Christian Endeavors"

##

Subject: Re: DCTV and Imagine questions
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 8:48:29 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

>
>
> I ordered a DCTV unit from Creative Computers today.  I am already thinking
> about how I want to use it with Imagine and the other software packages that I
> possess.  Initially, I want to create some basic animations of
> geometric objects orbiting each other and than place the animation over
> a digitised image from DCTV.  Is this easily done?  Would I have to
> map the DCTV image to a plane in Imagine or is there any easier way?
>
Well, the "basic animations of geometric objects orbiting each other" are
pretty easy to create in Imagine.  My initial, perhaps naive, approach,
would be to digitize my background image using DCTV, save it as a 24-bit
file, and map it onto a plane in Imagine.  That sounds pretty easy to me,
but perhaps I am missing something?

> I would like to get in contact with other DCTV user's on the list if possible.
>
I'm one!

> Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
>    Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.
>
_john


##

Subject: DCTV background
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 12:49:13 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Mapping the animation frames on a plane in the background will work,
but positioning the plane so it is just the right size and location is
tough and you can't easily move the camera without changing the
background anim registration.

An idea would be to render the anim with the "genlock sky" option,
which would render the background as solid black. Then it would be
trivial to use ADPro to automatically compost the background picture
behind of the Imagine-generated anim. An AREXX script to do this would
be very easy.  Also, all camera/background plane registration problems
go away, and rendering speed will increase; it takes time for Imagine
to render that extra plane in the background, not to mention memory.

Hope this helps.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re:  DCTV background
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 10:13:22 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

>An idea would be to render the anim with the "genlock sky" option,
>which would render the background as solid black. Then it would be
>trivial to use ADPro to automatically compost the background picture
>behind of the Imagine-generated anim. An AREXX script to do this would
>be very easy.  Also, all camera/background plane registration problems
>go away, and rendering speed will increase; it takes time for Imagine
>to render that extra plane in the background, not to mention memory.

The only problem I see with this idea (and its probably not a big problem
in an animation where the objects are moving), is that the anti-aliasing
where the edges of the objects "meet" with the genlock sky would not be
correct.  The edges of the object would be anti-aliased with the black
background, whereas if you use an image mapped onto a plane in the background,
the edges of the foreground object would be anti-aliased with the appropriate
colors in the image.  Does ADPro support some type of anti-aliasing when
compositing pictures?

I realize that anti-aliasing is not as important in an animation, especially
if your objects are moving fairly fast.  I guess this example just illustrates
another one of the trade-offs between rendering quality and rendering speed.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Closed Paths
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 10:34:57 PDT
From: Augusta Video Communication Center <"parent_todd"@dneast.enet.dec.com>

    Hello, I just started using Imagine and to teach myself about paths
    I made a quick 60 frame animation of the Earth rotating around the
    Sun and the Moon is rotating around the Earth at the same time.
    During the 60 frames, the Earth rotates around the Sun once and the
    Moon also rotates around the Earth but only once.  I would like to
    make the Moon rotate around the Earth 2 or three times while the
    Earth only rotates around the Sun once.  Is it possible to make an
    object go around a path more than once during an animation?

    Thanks,

    Todd Parent

##

Subject: Re: DCTV background
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 14:26:20 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Marvin Landis points out the objects will be antialiased with a black
border.

Good point: I hadn't thought of that. Also, any BLACK objects might
be semi-transparent depending on highlights and lighting. You're
right that there's always a tradeoff.

Now all we need is an IFF32 standard (and ASDG and Impulse to support it!)
to fix this problem. 8 bits of alpha could be really useful in any
composting, and then we could have FUNKY effects without my cheesy
genlock trick. And then we could have semi-transparent objects and
other fun stencils... This isn't a real suggestion, though, just a
dream... :-)

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: IFF32 (was Re: DCTV background)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 15:33:40 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> Now all we need is an IFF32 standard (and ASDG and Impulse to support it!)
> This isn't a real suggestion, though, just a dream... :-)

I think there should be a 32 bit standard. The Toaster currently has an
alpha channel but the 1.0 software doesn't hardly take advantage of it.
As you pointed out, it would make compositing soooo much better. However,
I would like to see the bitplane concept drop-kicked also. It doesn't
make sense for 24 and 32 bit true color graphics. It only slows things
down and makes the algorithms that deal with the image more inefficient
and difficult to deal with. Also, the image data compresses better in pixel
(alpha, R, G, B) format.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Art Dept. Pro  w/regards to DCTV & Imagine
Date:    Thu, 29 Aug 91 13:15 PDT
From: "Ivan I."                            <[e-mail]>

It's been mentioned a few times on this board, once today, and I read a
somewhat thin review of ADPro in .info; what can it do for me that DCTV
cannot, or how can it help me produce better images/animations than DCTV
can?

And by the by, anyone aware of a demo version lurking around an FTP site
somewhere?

Thanks loads,
II

##

Subject: Backgrounds...
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 15:43 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Scott Busse)

On the subject of anti-aliasing problems arising from "genlock sky"/ADPro
compositing of backgrounds into a scene where the camera doesn't move, you can
minimize the wrong anti-alias colors by setting the sky color (all aspects of
the sky in the global requester) to a color which is more similar to the
background that will ultimately be composited in ADPro. So instead of using
"genlock sky" which will leave the sky area black behind the moving objects,
make it grey, or yellow or whatever in the globals requester, and then specify
that color as transparent in ADPro, come composite time. As Steve says, it can
save a ton o time in rendering.  It works for me!
--
* Scott Busse email:           O    O   O_     _      ___ .....
* CIS 73040,2114              |||  /|\  /\   O/\_     /         O    )=|
* [e-mail]    l   | |   |\    / \   /\                _\
* [e-mail]                  Live Long and Animate... \

##

Subject: DCTV background
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 91 09:23:46 JST
From: [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

Steve Worley Writes:

>An idea would be to render the anim with the "genlock sky" option,
>which would render the background as solid black. Then it would be
>trivial to use ADPro to automatically compost the background picture
>behind of the Imagine-generated anim. An AREXX script to do this would
>be very easy.  Also, all camera/background plane registration problems
>go away, and rendering speed will increase; it takes time for Imagine
>to render that extra plane in the background, not to mention memory.

Exactly!  I was thinking something like this should be possible but I
do not have ADPro. I can't afford the cost at this time; it's that or
cutting down on going to night clubs in Japan.  Out of curiousity is there
other software that does things like this.  It would seem to be with the
advent of 24-bit devices that people would want to be overlay their
animations over an 24 bit background for Steve's above points.

Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
   Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.

##

Subject: OK, Now howzabout the Firecracker?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 17:21:26 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

In a message dated Wed 28 Aug 91 16:01, [e-mail] (Brian Bishop)
wrote:

 BB>   Has anyone seen both the Firecracker and Colorburst?? Are they
 BB> comparable??

No. The Firecracker display is about 1 million times better than the
Colorburst. However, it hasn't much software that works directly with it (a
paint program in beta or alpha stages, Imagine, and some CLI utilities for
loading 24bit pictures into the thing, and ADPro). Compared side by side the
Firecracker has better colour saturation, and a sharper picture. The
Colorburst unit also requires fiddling with to make it work right.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.975b


##

Subject: Alpha channels and the Harlequin board
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 91 09:29:38 JST
From: [e-mail] (Manjit Bedi)

I believe the Harlequin board from the UK has support for an alpha
channel.  I have only heard of the board in Amiga Format.  A few
months Amiga Format was reviewing software like Imagine and all the
screen shots were off a Harlequin board.  Has anyone on the list seen
one in action?  It is an expensive but well put together board.

Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
   Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.

##

Subject: Depth of field.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 19:08:47 MDT
From: mit-eddie!gatech!ncar.UCAR.EDU!csn!kessner!chris (Chris Hanson)

   In reference to an earlier question about Imagine and using depth-of-
field to unfocus a background:

   I know this won't help you, but since I'm a rabid 3D-Pro fan who is now
lurking on this newsgroup, I might mention that 3DPro allows for setting
this, among other camera attributes. Most people do not use this function,
(as indeed, it does slow the rendering) but for those who need it, there
are very few acceptable ways to simulate it.

    Chris - Xenon
[e-mail] (Chris_Hanson || Lord_Xenon || Kelson_Haldane)
Home: [phone], Work: [phone], Flames: 1-976-DEV-NULL
"These are the ravings of an idiot, a deranged idiot." -Xenon
I've nothing to disclaim, since I'm not ON my employer's machine(s).


##

Subject: Re: DCTV questions
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 91 23:23:35 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

Manjit,

I decided to make my reply public since it looked like it might be useful
to others.  Hope you don't mind!

> Hello John,
> Are you satisified with yuor DCTV?  What other software do you consider essential
> to have with DCTV?  Does the DCTV come with any software for converting GIF's.
> I have been recently collecting GIF's off of alt.binaries.pictures.
> What sort of things have you been doing with it?  Initially, I am planning to
> digitise some images of a friend of mine and overlay animations over these images.
> I am looking to create sort of sort of psychedelic imagery.  My friend is a club DJ,
> record producer and plays House music in a band.  I want to make a videotape of
> stuff for him as a gift.
>
Lotsa questions!  Let's see here...  Yes, I am satisfied with my DCTV.  It
produces output that looks really good, and which I can put on tape at a
reasonable frame rate.  I would like to output my ANIMs still faster than
it allows, but there isn't anything on the Amiga that will do that.  At
least nothing that I have found...

The software I use...  I use it to display my 24-bit Imagine pics and ANIMs.
I use the PD program AnimBuild to build ANIMs.  I occasionally use the
Animation Station or the Director to munge these further, but these are
not essential and have learning curves of their own.  I use IFFTODCTV
to convert said 24-bit images to DCTV format.  This DCTV format is great -
much, much smaller than the original, and animates well.

DCTV does not come with software to convert GIFs - I use ADPro for this
(Art Department Professional).  Once you get into this, you will find
something odd - GIFs pretty much suck.  They have only 256 colors, and
you will quickly get used to having 4 million or so.  I believe there
are PD packages to convert GIFs as well, if you want to.  pbmplus is
one that comes to mind.

What do I do with it?  :)  3D animation.  I am really getting into using
Imagine for photo-realistic animations of things which can not occur in
nature.  1 1/2 minutes of my animation will appear on a local TV program
in October, so it probably isn't toooo bad.  My last project was a series
of rings of chrome spheres rotating in contrary directions around a
translucent prism, on a checkered landscape, at 20 fps.  Looks really
cool, and utterly smooth.  I could not have done it and gotten it out to
tape without DCTV, or a much more expensive board + single-frame recorder.
Right now, I am playing with a closed path circling a color-gradiated
cone - not sure what this one will grow up to be yet.

As you can see, I am much more interested in the output of DCTV than in
the digitizer.  However, I have played with that a little.  It works
pretty good, given a good VCR.  It does take a solid freeze-frame and
a little experimentation, but it comes out ok.  The image-processing
software supporting this function works well too.

As for overlaying animation over grabbed images...  I would say that you
will be able to do that, but it will take quite a bit of machine.  You
will probably need to grab the images and save them in 24-bit format (this
implies 200K-500K per image), then load them into Imagine whilst adding
your other stuff (no prob, but can take a while to render, along with lots
of memory), then save the resultant 24-bit frames out, then finally convert
these frames to DCTV (at which point they are finally compressed).  Then
you can compress them into ANIM format and play them back and record them,
at a speed depending on the speed of your machine and the resolution you
decided to work in and the differential between frames.  I don't mean to
sound discouraging, just to let you know what you are in for.  The raw
frames for my sphere/prism animation take up around 21 Mb on disk before
compression....  I guess I am really saying that Imagine needs a lot of
machine.  DCTV is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

> Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
>    Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.
>
_john


##

Subject: DCTV
Date:    Fri, 30 Aug 91 11:39 EDT
From: "Marc Rifkin" <[e-mail]>

For those of you who use DCTV, what speed/memory machine do you have
and what resolution/bitplanes do you use for animation?

Marc Rifkin, [e-mail]
Computer Graphics and Integrative Technology, Penn State Univ.
"I thought character animation had something to do with fonts!"

##

Subject: Re: Depth of field.
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 91 11:36:20 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Chris_Hanson writes:
>    I know this won't help you, but since I'm a rabid 3D-Pro fan who is now
> lurking on this newsgroup, I might mention that 3DPro allows for setting
> depth of field, among other camera attributes. Most people do not use this
> function, (as indeed, it does slow the rendering) but for those who need
> it, there are very few acceptable ways to simulate it.

With a little effort, LightWave can actually simulate depth of field, full
motion blur, and other effects using a technique referred to as an
accumulation buffer (currently implemented on SGI VGX machines). By utilizing
3 featutes of LightWave (foreground image, foreground image fade, and image
sequence) an accumulation buffer can be emulated. To do depth of field, setup
your scene and set the camera to target your focus object.  Then
hierarchically attach the camera to a null point. Now define a very small
circular path for that point to traverse over 8 or so frames. What this does
is jitter the camera's position while maintaining a fixed target point on
your focus object. Now render the first frame to an iff file. Next, load an
image sequence specifying the file you just rendered. Then specify a
foreground picture using the image sequence and specify a foreground fade of
say 50%. Then give the image sequence an offset of -1 and start rendering at
frame 2. Now each succesive frame will be composited with all the previous
ones and the jittered camera position will create an accumulated depth of
field. The more frames defined by your circular path, the better your
accumulated image (also the longer it will take to render).  The process is
rather simple to implement but would be somewhat annoying for animation. By
jittering objects and/or lights, motion blur and soft shadows can also be
implemented. When dealing with render times of ten minutes or so, adding
these effects is not too painful. A future release of LightWave will make
these effects automatic.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: DCTV background
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 91 08:24:05 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm)

rutgers!athena.mit.edu!spworley writes:

> Now all we need is an IFF32 standard (and ASDG and Impulse to support it!)
> to fix this problem. 8 bits of alpha could be really useful in any
> composting, and then we could have FUNKY effects without my cheesy
  ^^^^^^^^^^

Ok..I couldn't resist.  This is the second message with "compost" and
"composting" in it.   Composting is something you do to old
vegetables and other leftovers out in your backyard to create organic
humus for growing plants in.  However, it is not used in image
manipulation to my knowledge. Although if you did compost your
images, you probably would end up with some "FUNKY effects" and
"cheesy"ness. <grin>

I believe the term is "composite" and "compositing".  You composite
two images to create a single new image.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Depth-of-field, motion blurring
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 91 19:58:39 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Actually, we can do depth of field effects in Imagine right now! Just
build a lens out of glass and put it in front of the camera, making
sure it blocks the entire view. You can change focal length just by
playing with the index of refraction. This will only work under trace
mode, of course. This is one of the advantages of ray tracers!

To see how to make a lens, look at the article I wrote on glass long ago...
it's in the hubcap archives.

-Steve

PS- we can also do motion blurring by rendering 4 times as many
frames, then using ADPro to load groups of four frames, average them,
then output the average as a single frame of the motion-blurred
version. This isn't unfeasable. With an AREXX script, it's not much
work, and if you've got a fast machine and using scanline, the
rendering should be easy. Obviously, this can be done for Lightwave
anims, too. I've actually rendered a motion blur test-anim, though
I've only done stills of the depth-of-field lens trick. As long as nothing
is moving TOO fast, 4 samples is enough for very nice blurring; if
something is moving across the screen in 3 frames, you might want to
supersample at 8 or 16 frames/blurred frame, at the obvious hit in
rendering speed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Constant distance between points.
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 91 00:45:01 CST
From: shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)

OK, probably a stupid question (RTFM), but I'm wondering if there is an
easy way to establish a constant distance between points.  Say I've
constructed a flexible surface that I want to ripple flip...kind of
like the page of a book turning.  I want to be sure that I don't
stretch the surface while I'm manipulating it so that it remains the
same dimensions.  Would my best bet be to use the cycle editor?  Or
is it possible to do it elsewhere.  I figure I'll have to hand position
each frame, unless I can assign one point to a path and have the other
points be dragged as it moves.  Any suggestions?

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Rick Tillery            uunet.uu.net!uokmax!occrsh!shrapnel!rtillery |
|                                                                       |
| "I'd rather be ray-tracing...and with my multitasking Amiga, I AM!!!" |
|  ========== Always willing to trade 24 bit and/or GIF pics ========== |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/

##

Subject: Attributes
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 91 00:00:23 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I'd like to assemble a large set of pre-made attribute files. I've already
uploaded about 20 attribute files to hubcap, but I'd like to assemble
even more. If you have ANY useful sets of attributes that you've made,
please  upload then hubcap, or mail me with the parameters. I'll assemble them
all, and make a definative set of attributes. If you want to mail me
with the attribute parameters, order the numbers in the order they are
in the attribute reqestor:

Name, color (R,G,B), reflect (R,G,B), filter (R,G,B), specular (R,G,B),
dithering, hardness, roughness, shininess, index of refraction.

We could do the same thing for useful textures, too, but they're not as easy
to organize.

Thanks!

-Steve

As a reward, uh, each and every person will get a very special place
in my heart.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Info wanted about Imagine file formats
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 91 10:01:51 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Helge Egelund Rasmussen)

Hi,

I've been porting Greg Ward's Radiance ray tracer with radiosity effects to
the Amiga and it now seems to work (on a 68030 w. 5 mb).
Unfortunately, you have to create scene descriptions with an editor, so
I wanted to write an Imagine to Radiance object converter.
I thought of using Glenn Lewis' TTDDD format, but found that it was easier
to read the Imagine IFF files directly using the routines supplied by
Impulse for Turbo Silver.

So far I'm able to convert simple objects and lamps to Radiance format,
but unfortunately the Imagine IFF files contain some undocumented hunks
which didn't exist in Turbo Silver. At the moment I've found the following:

SPC1    (length 4)
PRP1    (Length 8)
INT1    (Length 12)

Does anyone know what these hunks contain?

I'm also interested in converting full scenes w. lamps and camera to
radiance format. Unfortunately this part of Imagine is totally different
from the Turbo silver format. As far as I can see, all info about the
scene is placed in a file called "staging" or something like that.

Does anyone know what the staging file contain?

My hope is that I can convert an Imagine scene to radiance format, and
then let the Unix machines here render the pictures.

The converter still need a lot of work, but I think that it'll be possible
to convert most of the Imagine attributes to corresponding Radiance attributes.

Radiance has some rather fancy texture facilities (It is possible to write
the formula/program for a texture in some sort of pseudo language), so it
might even be possible to convert Imagine textures to Radiance textures.

Helge
---
Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  [e-mail]
Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .
Copenhagen, Denmark

##

Subject: DAAM
Date:    Mon, 02 Sep 91 08:39 PDT
From: "Ivan I."                            <[e-mail]>

I've just uploaded daam10.lzh to AB20 incoming/amiga.  It stands for DCTV
Automated Animation Maker Version 1.0, and it's a fine piece of work.  It
will allow you to set up input, output & animation paths so that DAAM can take
your pic. files as soon as they are done, convert them to DCTV format in a
variety of screen sizes, 3/4 bitplanes, etc, wait for the next pic. frame and
so on until all frames are rendered - then it will combine the DCTV frames into
an animation for you if you ask it to, as well as deleting your Imagine and/or
.DCTV pic frames if you tell it to.  It will also work with LightWave, Sculpt,
and a couple of other formats.

Two caveats: you need various animation utilities on your own for this version,
it seems; so a SHOW, MakeANIM, and whatever else you use should be in your c
directory or wherever you keep DAAM.

Also, I ran into problems with V. 2.2 when I would not make a looping
animation - The initial frames would have dropouts, and the final few frames
would get "stuck" - so if a character walked across the screen, when playing th
e animation continuously, he would walk through the animation fine, but would
walk into a copy of himself at the end end which was doing a jig.  a fun effect
yes, but you can get rid of it by choosing to make a looping anim.  I have not
yet tested whether that happens on this version. (DAAM was formerly known as
ADAM)

Have fun.

##

Subject: Re: Depth-of-field, motion blurring
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 91 13:38:06 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

Steve,

    I was under the impression that it was the diameter of the
aperture in the diaphragm of the lens/camera system that effected
depth of field.  That's why the aperture ring on a camera lens has a
depth of field gauge next to it.  If I was going to simulate camera
effects, I would probably build a simple camera object with a lens,
diaphragm, and an enclosed light path.  Something like this:

                --------
                |      ()
               E       ()  <---- light
                |      ()
                --------

The eye position is at E (just behind the diaphragm), and the
parentheses are the lens.  Focal length can be changed by changing the
lens shape and position relative to the diaphragm, or adding lenses
and playing with the spacing between them (like a zoom lens).  You can
make the model as complicated as you want, depending on what effects
you want to model.  I had actually done some of this in rayshade
before I started using the keywords that it provides to directly
manipulate the camera model.


Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds


##

Subject: Imagine TDDD format
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 91 16:35:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Warning, most people will have no idea what we're talking about here..
It is the Imagine binary object format.



Helge, the chunks you're interested in are:

-------------------------

    INT1 - size 12

        VECTOR  Intensity;      ; light intensity

  Seperate R, G & B lamp intensities.

---------------------------

   SPC1 - size 4

        BYTE    pad;            ; pad byte - must be zero
        COLOR   col;            ; RGB color

        These are the main object RGB color, and reflection, transmission
        and specularity coefficients.

------------------


   PRP1 - size 8

        UBYTE   IProps[8];       ; more object properties

        This chunk contains object properties that programs other
        than Imagine might support.

        IProps[0] - IPRP_DITHER   ; blending factor (0-255)
        IProps[1] - IPRP_HARD     ; hardness factor (0-255)
        IProps[2] - IPRP_ROUGH    ; roughness factor (0-255)
        IProps[3] - IPRP_SHINY    ; shinyness factor (0-255)
        IProps[4] - IPRP_INDEX    ; index of refraction
        IProps[5] - IPRP_QUICK    ; flag - Quickdraw on/off
        IProps[6] - IPRP_PHONG    ; flag - Phong shading on/off
        IProps[7] - IPRP_GENLOCK  ; flag - Genlock on/off

        The blending factor controls the amount of dithering used
        on the object - 255 is fully dithered.
        The hardness factor controls how tight the specular spot
        should be - 0 is a big soft spot, 255 is a tight hot spot
        The roughness factor controls how rough the object should
        appear - 0 is smooth, 255 is max roughness.

------------------------


Hope this helps.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Shininess
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 91 00:50:21 EDT
From: [e-mail]

To get transparent objects you have to set shininess to 0. I never
understood this bug... it was a major thread at the start of this list.


I just discovered a stupid, simple fact that I never knew! WHEN
SHININESS IS NOT ZERO, THE FILTER CONTROLS DETERMINE WHAT COLOR THE
"SHINE" IS! This, of course, explains the "bug" of having shininess
turn off transparency- the filter settings have been hijacked to
help determine the shininess character.

Anyway, I thought I'd pass it along; I'm sure everyone else knew this,
and just never thought to tell me.  :-) :-) :-)

You learn something new every day. Sigh.

-Steve

PS. Dave Duberman, author of The Imagine Companion, is now a member
of the list.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: OK, Now howzabout the Firecracker?
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 91 21:34:14 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

In a message dated Sat 31 Aug 91 08:39, shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)
wrote:

 RT> That's an interesting comment.  I own a ColorBurst and have a friend
 RT> with a FireCracker.  I haven't gotten to see the two images side-by-
 RT> side,
 RT> but I hadn't noticed such a marked difference.  The image I get is
 RT> very
 RT> crisp and the colors are excellent.  I didn't have to do any
 RT> "fiddling"
 RT> to get CB to work right out of the box.  I'm curious what setup you
 RT> used to compare the two.  I view my CB on a 1950 (piece of trash, but
 RT> of higher resolution) and my friend uses a 1080 to view her
 RT> FireCracker
 RT> (lower resolution).

My comments were based on what I saw at an Ami-Expo in Calgary. I brought
with me a 24 bit image that I had rendered in Imagine, and asked to view it
on each of the devices.

On the Firecracker (which was being displayed on a 1084 monitor) the image
was bright, crisp, and cleear.

On the Colourburst, (which was also displayed on a 1084 monitor) the image
was dark, muddy, and displayed several artifacts in areas where there were
sharp colour boundaries. There was a guy from MAST who tried to fiddle with a
fine-tuning po set in a hole on the front of the unit, to get rid of these
dark pixel artifacts. They then tried to claim that the artifacts were in my
original picture. Funny they didn't show up anywhere else, including on my
Machine at home, under DCTV, Firecracker or on my MacIIci at work.

Based on what I saw, I decided that the Firecracker was a better quality
product. There  is a saying - You get what you pay for.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.975b


##

Subject: DCTV stuff
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 91 9:51:44 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

Manjit,

I decided to make my reply public since it looked like it might be useful
to others.  Hope you don't mind!

> Hello John,
> Are you satisified with yuor DCTV?  What other software do you consider essential
> to have with DCTV?  Does the DCTV come with any software for converting GIF's.
> I have been recently collecting GIF's off of alt.binaries.pictures.
> What sort of things have you been doing with it?  Initially, I am planning to
> digitise some images of a friend of mine and overlay animations over these images.
> I am looking to create sort of sort of psychedelic imagery.  My friend is a club DJ,
> record producer and plays House music in a band.  I want to make a videotape of
> stuff for him as a gift.
>
Lotsa questions!  Let's see here...  Yes, I am satisfied with my DCTV.  It
produces output that looks really good, and which I can put on tape at a
reasonable frame rate.  I would like to output my ANIMs still faster than
it allows, but there isn't anything on the Amiga that will do that.  At
least nothing that I have found...

The software I use...  I use it to display my 24-bit Imagine pics and ANIMs.
I use the PD program AnimBuild to build ANIMs.  I occasionally use the
Animation Station or the Director to munge these further, but these are
not essential and have learning curves of their own.  I use IFFTODCTV
to convert said 24-bit images to DCTV format.  This DCTV format is great -
much, much smaller than the original, and animates well.

DCTV does not come with software to convert GIFs - I use ADPro for this
(Art Department Professional).  Once you get into this, you will find
something odd - GIFs pretty much suck.  They have only 256 colors, and
you will quickly get used to having 4 million or so.  I believe there
are PD packages to convert GIFs as well, if you want to.  pbmplus is
one that comes to mind.

What do I do with it?  :)  3D animation.  I am really getting into using
Imagine for photo-realistic animations of things which can not occur in
nature.  1 1/2 minutes of my animation will appear on a local TV program
in October, so it probably isn't toooo bad.  My last project was a series
of rings of chrome spheres rotating in contrary directions around a
translucent prism, on a checkered landscape, at 20 fps.  Looks really
cool, and utterly smooth.  I could not have done it and gotten it out to
tape without DCTV, or a much more expensive board + single-frame recorder.
Right now, I am playing with a closed path circling a color-gradiated
cone - not sure what this one will grow up to be yet.

As you can see, I am much more interested in the output of DCTV than in
the digitizer.  However, I have played with that a little.  It works
pretty good, given a good VCR.  It does take a solid freeze-frame and
a little experimentation, but it comes out ok.  The image-processing
software supporting this function works well too.

As for overlaying animation over grabbed images...  I would say that you
will be able to do that, but it will take quite a bit of machine.  You
will probably need to grab the images and save them in 24-bit format (this
implies 200K-500K per image), then load them into Imagine whilst adding
your other stuff (no prob, but can take a while to render, along with lots
of memory), then save the resultant 24-bit frames out, then finally convert
these frames to DCTV (at which point they are finally compressed).  Then
you can compress them into ANIM format and play them back and record them,
at a speed depending on the speed of your machine and the resolution you
decided to work in and the differential between frames.  I don't mean to
sound discouraging, just to let you know what you are in for.  The raw
frames for my sphere/prism animation take up around 21 Mb on disk before
compression....  I guess I am really saying that Imagine needs a lot of
machine.  DCTV is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

> Manjit Bedi ( [e-mail])
>    Home is Vancouver, Canada; currently working, residing in Osaka, Japan.
>
_john


##

Subject: Re: Info wanted about Imagine file formats
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 07:13:09 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

Helge -

    I see that Steve already gave you a description of those new
Imagine chunks.

[now for your benefit and others interested...]

    I plan on adding full TDDD read and write routines to the
TTDDDLIB on hubcap.  Right now, there are full TTDDD read/write
routines, but it looks like TDDD r/w would be quite useful too.  I just
figured that people would get the TTDDD package and use it for
conversion, and use the TTDDDLIB for manipulation of all the data
structures.  Anyway, you might want to check it (TTDDDLIB) out, because
it will give you added versatility.  It generates isometric views of
objects via PostScript, and also outputs rayshade input decks.  I'll
also add the new chunks to the library so it understands them.

                            -- Glenn

[e-mail] | These are my own opinions... not Intel's

##

Subject: TTDDDLIB
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 16:16:51 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

Glenn, I thought TTDDDLIB was written for Unix.  Has it been ported to
Amiga now?

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Re: TTDDDLIB
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 19:14:32 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

Glenn Lewis writes:
>
>     You are quite right, John...  It will run fine on an Amiga, but
> it doesn't specifically "free()" everything it "malloc()"ed.  That is
> why I have so far suggested that people just use it on a Unix box.  I
> should probably spend the time necessary to free everything properly, or
> maybe waste more memory by using the MallocRemember(), or whatever those
> calls are.
>

    Glenn, you could use the good ol' ARP library: it tracks all
memory allocations and frees them when you close the library.  Or, if
you want to avoid using ARP, there are a couple of PD/Shareware routines
floating around which do the same thing.
    This all reminds me to send in my registration fee for TTDDD.
I'm so lazy... :( ...forgive me.  And thanks again for a great effort.

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Re: TTDDDLIB
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 21:22:32 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Reynolds)

Glenn,

    As a unix user who is interested in TTDDD and/or TTDDDLIB I
hope you will use free() instead of MallocRemember() or some other
Amiga specific solution.

Thanks,
Brian Reynolds "... a drone from sector 7G."
Fusion Systems Group
[e-mail] -or- ...!uupsi!fsg!reynolds


##

Subject: Re: MS-Imagine?
Date:    Thu, 5 Sep 91 15:27 EDT
From: "Marc Rifkin" <[e-mail]>

I can't help but feel skeptical about Impulse giving out ANY info about
a product that is not out yet.  They were highly secretive about Imagine
before it debuted for the Amiga.

However, I did once speak with Mike Halvorsen when he joked about porting
Imagine to the Silicon Graphics and selling it for $20,000 to make some
extra cash on the side... B-)

Marc Rifkin, [e-mail]
Computer Graphics and Integrative Technology, Penn State Univ.
"I thought character animation had something to do with fonts!"

##

Subject: MS-Imagine?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 91 14:42:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Bob Says:

>I had been hearing rumors of Impulse's release of the highly popular
>Imagine modeler and ray-tracer for the ms-dos machines.  A call to the
>company confirmed that such a product was nearing completion.  The only hold
>up was animating larger than 320x200.  The man on the phone said they think
>that on a 386 they can get 512x450 at 20fps (using 8-bit of course).  While
>these numbers sound wierd, it seems pretty good. Anyway, has anyone else heard
>more details about this one.  On the Amiga it is simply incredible.  By the
>way, they said it would import DXF and cost <$500.  The man from impulse
>chuckled and said  "We plan to hit Autodesk's 3D Studio hard."

>I hope this is just not vaporware.


Bob, this is first hand? -YOU- called Impulse? Where did you initally hear
the rumors? I'd be skeptical if you heard this second hand; 1) cuz I would
think they'd work on Imagine 2.0 first and 2) They wouldn't casually
give out info like that on the phone. But if you did call, I dunno...

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------





##

Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0-MS-DOS
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 91 17:45:25 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
> I had been hearing rumors of Impulse's release of the highly popular
> Imagine modeler and ray-tracer for the ms-dos machines.

    Imagine would create quite a stir in the DOS world, if a good
24-bit ray-tracing engine can be easily developed by Impulse for '386 or
'486 machines.  I don't think that a port from MCC680x0 to Intel is
trivial, however.  Anyways, as long as Impulse doesn't follow
Byte-by-Byte's route (i.e., abandoning Amiga), I don't really care if
they port Imagine to Crays or C-64s!

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Re: TTDDDLIB
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 91 17:56:48 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

Brian Reynolds writes:
>
>     As a unix user who is interested in TTDDD and/or TTDDDLIB I
> hope you will use free() instead of MallocRemember() or some other
> Amiga specific solution.

    Well, the resource tracking modules can simply be kept in
separate object files for each platform, the appropriate one linked in
at compile time.  Of course, Manx (and SAS?) include Unix-like malloc()
and free() funtions in their standard library, so, this probably
isn't really an issue.

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer

##

Subject: object question
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 10:50:29 EDT
From: vitro![e-mail] (Steve Brailsford)

Hi, I am just getting this list so haven't seen what
has been before.  I will ftp the archive soon, but I
have a pressing problem someone might be able to help
me out with.

I have been using imagine for about 3 weeks, and switched
from sculpt 4D.  I have an object someone else created
that I set the camera to track to.  I assume it will track
to the object's axis.  The problem I have is the axis is
not on the object so the object appears to the side of the
screen.  How can I move the object over the axis so they
line up?  Thanks.

--
    Steve Brailsford ([e-mail])   _____
    Usenet:  uupsi!vitro!sparc!fsb         \/itro Corporation
                                            14000 Georgia Ave.
    Voice:  [phone]                  Silver Spring, MD 20906

##

Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0-MS-DOS
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 91 11:50:30 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

I had been hearing rumors of Impulse's release of the highly popular
Imagine modeler and ray-tracer for the ms-dos machines.  A call to the
company confirmed that such a product was nearing completion.  The only hold
up was animating larger than 320x200.  The man on the phone said they think
that on a 386 they can get 512x450 at 20fps (using 8-bit of course).  While
these numbers sound wierd, it seems pretty good.  Anyway, has anyone else heard
more details about this one.  On the Amiga it is simply incredible.  By the
way, they said it would import DXF and cost <$500.  The man from impulse
chuckled and said  "We plan to hit Autodesk's 3D Studio hard."

I hope this is just not vaporware.


##

Subject: MS-Imagine?
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 91 07:44:15 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!athena.mit.edu!spworley writes:

> Bob, this is first hand? -YOU- called Impulse? Where did you initally hear
> the rumors? I'd be skeptical if you heard this second hand; 1) cuz I would
> think they'd work on Imagine 2.0 first and 2) They wouldn't casually
> give out info like that on the phone. But if you did call, I dunno...
>
> -Steve

No, I didn't hear it first hand.  If you noticed, it was a forwarded
message from comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc.  I thought it was of interest only
because the person said they called Impulse directly.  I have no idea
as to the validity of the statements made.  It would be very
interesting however.  I would love to do Imagine 3D on my IBM to
either my SuperVGA or my TARGA board. <grin>

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Re:  object question
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 11:49:03 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  Do not  move the  object  around the axis; move the axis around the
object with the M  command instead of the m command. Capital letters are
used to  adjust the axis, while  lower case affect the object. I just
found this  out myself, after two months!

David Tiberio

##

Subject: Re:  object question
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 08:35:31 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

> I have been using imagine for about 3 weeks, and switched
> from sculpt 4D.  I have an object someone else created
> that I set the camera to track to.  I assume it will track
> to the object's axis.  The problem I have is the axis is
> not on the object so the object appears to the side of the
> screen.  How can I move the object over the axis so they
> line up?  Thanks.
>
>    Steve Brailsford ([e-mail])

No problem Steve, in the Detail editor select the object then select
Transformation from the appropriate menu (I never pay attention to a menu's
title).  In the dialog box you will see a check box labelled "Transform axis
only".  Make sure this box is checked, then type in the necessary translation
values to move your axis "into" the object.

I believe there is a way to do this interactively also.  Something like
hitting a capital X, Y, or Z when doing an interactive move (or maybe its a
capital M when choosing interactive move).  Can anyone clear me up on this if
its possible? (I'd try it myself, but that lightning strike that hit my house
left my machine in kind of a useless state.  Hopefully it will be back from
the service department today, because I was almost finished with some new
objects I will share to help keep Steve Worley's bribes coming in :-).

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Moving an object's axis
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 91 12:17:23 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Steve Brailsford ([e-mail]) asks:

>I have been using imagine for about 3 weeks, and switched
>from sculpt 4D.  I have an object someone else created
>that I set the camera to track to.  I assume it will track
>to the object's axis.  The problem I have is the axis is
>not on the object so the object appears to the side of the
>screen.  How can I move the object over the axis so they
>line up?  Thanks.

You are right- the camera tracks the axis of an object, so moving the
axis will move the tracking position of the camera.

To move the axis of an object, load the object in the DETAIL editor.
"Pick" the object by clicking on the axis; the object will turn
purple, (possibly blue). Press M (SHIFT-m) and you'll be able to drag
the axis by using the mouse in any of the three windows. After you've
placed your object's axis where you like, press the space bar to accept
your change (or ESC to abort), Then you can save your object. When you
go back into the Stage Editor, you'll find that the camera will track
your new axis position.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Rotating around a PATH
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 11:41:27 PDT
From: Augusta Video Communication Center <"parent_todd"@dneast.enet.dec.com>

    I asked this question once already but got no response, so I'll
    asked it again.


    I made an animation with the Earth rotating around the Sun and the
    Moon is rotating around the Earth.  During the animation, the Earth
    rotates around the Sun once and the Moon rotates around the Earth
    once.  I would like to have the Moon rotate around the Earth several
    times while the Earth only rotates around the Sun once.  Is there a
    way to make an object rotate around a path more than once during an
    animation without repeating the animation?


    Thanks,

    -Todd

##

Subject: Rendering for $$
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1991 15:03 MDT
From: [e-mail]

    I am making the move from hobbyist to professional.  I have been asked
to do some 3d video work for a local company, but I have a few questions
for those of you that do 3d/video work professionally and some technical
questions.

1.  How do I charge?  I was thinking of charging by the hour for my time,
    but how do I charge for computer rendering time?  What is the going
    rate for this kind of work?

2.  Do you have any warnings/suggestions before I start?

Now the technical questions:

1.  What is the most economical way to transfer Imagine animations to
    video?  Quality is important, but I'm not ready for the expense of the
    high-end stuff.  My current setup is an A3000 with a FireCracker 24 and
    a good S-VHS VCR.  I am planning on upping my memory and HD capabilities
    even further.  Would DCTV be a good choice?

2.  What is an acceptable frame rate for video, and how do I make sure that
    when I make the animation it will work well at this frame rate?

Time is a factor for this project, so the animation will probably be in 24
bit scanline.  Any information, tips, warnings, help etc. would be greatly
appreciated.  Thank you.

John Zollinger
UltraMedia Systems


##

Subject: Attributes
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 91 20:04:23 -0600
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

    I've whipped up a amiga mouse and while the object creation was a
amazingly simple with the Skin option I can't seem to set the attributes to
something realistic. The best result was from setting the colors to what it is
with some slight specularity. However the object has the right color on rwhen
rendered, but is not very crisp looking, details like the small valley on the
side and the space between the buttons and the casing where washed out along
with some curves.
    Does anyone have any suggestions one setting attributes in general? It
seems out of all the elements of tracing this one I am the worst at. If I get a
chance I'll put the mouse up on hubcap if you want to look at exactly what I've
done. Thanks....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~       Chris Hurtt       ~  Computer Science  ~         This Space       ~
~         isis.cs.du.edu  ~  Applications in   ~          For Rent        ~
~         tramp.colorado  ~  Fine Arts Major   ~      (303)-466-9259      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



##

Subject: Re: Attributes
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 91 9:18:50 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

Chris Hurtt writes:

>   [stuff deleted]
> with some slight specularity. However the object has the right color on rwhen
> rendered, but is not very crisp looking, details like the small valley on the
> side and the space between the buttons and the casing where washed out along
> with some curves.

    Your problem might be related to phong shading.  You probably
want most of the contours of the mouse to be phong-ed because they are
somewhat rounded, but you need to de-phong the small valley and the
button wells.  Perhaps you should create your mouse object as to
separate objects: a top and bottom.  Then group them with a little space
between the two halves (and somehow fill the space between to create the
"valley" look).
    Have you tried selecting just the edges around the valley and
button wells, then altered the attributes to remove phong shading? I
don't know if that will work.  You *can* change the attributes of
individual faces, or at least you can change the
color,reflect,transparency, etc.  I don't know if that will work for the
shading model.
    Good luck!

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Re: Rotating around a PATH
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 91 9:28:40 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
>     I made an animation with the Earth rotating around the Sun and the
>     Moon is rotating around the Earth.  During the animation, the Earth
>     rotates around the Sun once and the Moon rotates around the Earth
>     once.  I would like to have the Moon rotate around the Earth several
>     times while the Earth only rotates around the Sun once.  Is there a
>     way to make an object rotate around a path more than once during an
>
    I am just getting started in animation with Imagine, so take any
advice I give with a huge dollop of salt ;-)

    I assume you're using a closed path to move your moon.  Now,
suppose you have a 50 frame animation, and you want the earth to revolve
around the sun once, while the moon revolves around the earth 5 times.
Could you create the earth's path, then the smaller moon path.  In
ACTION, make the earth path 50 frames long, and the moon path 10 frames.
Now tell the earth and the moon path to follow the earth path.  Go to
frame 11, add the same moon path in the appropriate position, tell it to
follow the earth path.  Of course, you will have the moon following the
moon path. Continue this process for each block of 10 frames.

    Would this work? Or am I just blowing smoke?

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Edge Attirbutes
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 91 12:24:13 -0600
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

> Have you tried selecting just the edges around the valley and button wells,
> then altered the attributes to remove phong shading? I

    Unfortunatly it doesn't allow for this. I'll see what happens if I turn
Phong off altogether, but doubtless the result will probably be worse. Then I'll
try your idea of seperate objects. Thanks.

    Chris


##

Subject: Mirror'd objects?
Date: 7 Sep 91 22:51:00 EST
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]>

Greetings Imaginers...

I gotta say I am dissapointed that now one would help me with my A project
that I left on hubcap... but alas, I move on to a more interesting question
that someone will know the answer too.

How does one make a mirror of an object?  For example, suppose a model the
left wing of an airplane how do I turn it into a right wing?

-mark=

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark D. Manes                       //           CIS  :  74030,744
System Manager/Programmer          //            Email:  [e-mail]
Norfolk State University       \\\// Amiga       Phone:  [phone]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"AmigaDOS 2.0 is the future of the Amiga -- be a part of it!"




##

Subject: Conversion from SA4D
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 12:18:08 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Lee Webb)

I once saw a conversion program that does SA4D <--> Silver.
If someone has this, could they put it on hubcap, I've got some more
space objects, but their in SA4D format.

-- Steven Webb

##

Subject: Re: Mirror'd objects?
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 9:45:20 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
> How does one make a mirror of an object?  For example, suppose a model the
> left wing of an airplane how do I turn it into a right wing?

    It depends on how complex your wing objects are.  For old-style
airplanes (bi-planes, tri-planes) you just flip the left wing around to
make it the right wing.  But, if you have a modern swept-back wing with
flaps and foils and all, it is more complicated.  I think you would
first want to make the basic swept-back wing shape with no fancy
details. Copy that, flip it around, and then add each detail to each of
the two wings.

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Mirror'd objects?
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 09:56:12 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

In a message dated Sun  8 Sep 91 05:05, "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]
wrote:

 SYS> How does one make a mirror of an object?  For example, suppose a
 SYS> model the
 SYS> left wing of an airplane how do I turn it into a right wing?

Pick and Select the object, copy it, paste it, select it, and then bring up
the transformation requestor, and scale it -1 in the apporpirate direction.
If you want to mirror the object in the FRONT view, scale the X dimension by
-1. If you want to mirror the object in the RIGHT view, scale the Y dimension
by -1. If you want to mirror the object in the TOP view in the up/down axis,
scale the object in the Z dimension by -1.

You should end up with two objects that are mirrors of each other.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.975b


##

Subject: Glass color?
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 14:50:04 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Goeran Ehrsson)

Hi,

First I want to thank all Imaginers on this list for the tips and great
ideas you share. You have inspired me to do things I couldn't dream of
a couple of months ago. The bad thing is that this means my personal economy
is a mess, since I had to order a GVP 33MHz combo card last week, to be able
to complete all ideas in a reasonable time.  :-)

Enought greasing, to the question:

I am working on a project that includes a wine bottle.
The problem is, I cannot get the right green color on the glass.
I have experimented with spheres and different settings but the result
is not what I want, and experimenting is not funny on a stock A2000.

Any help is useful, and suggestions on how to make red wine inside the
bottle is also welcome. No floating liquid, it just have to be there inside.

Keep on rendering...

- Goran
--
Goran Ehrsson                              |      /// Imagine Me and my Amiga.
[e-mail]                            |     /// The relationship grows
...!uunet!mcsun!sunic!abalon!goran         | \\\/// in three dimensions.
Abalon AB, Box 11129,161 11 Bromma,SWEDEN. |  \XX/

##

Subject: 3D Vector Objects
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 13:30:22 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Steven Lee Webb)

3D Vector Objects

  This collection of five vector objects was created by Joseph Contegiacomo
of Polar Arts.  The objects are all very detailed, very futuristic
spacecraft.  They are in Sculpt .SCENE format and can be loaded and
rendered using one of the Byte By Byte Sculpt programs such as Sculpt
Animate 4D.  Or, by using Interchange from Syndesis you can transform them
to other formats such as Turbo Silver or VideoScape.
  The five objects are named ...

                  ---------------------------------------


Original Packed Ratio  Date      Time   Type  CRC  Name
-------- ------  --- --------- -------- ---- ------------
   25474  11489  54% 08-Sep-91 12:37:10 -lh5- 6386 bd-5.iob
   19778   7628  61% 08-Sep-91 12:43:32 -lh5- B577 bomber.iob
   16842   6950  58% 08-Sep-91 12:45:20 -lh5- 35BC fighter.iob
   19784   8272  58% 08-Sep-91 12:50:30 -lh5- 550C killer.iob
   16702   7670  54% 08-Sep-91 12:53:28 -lh5- 2B19 satprobe.iob
    1301    671  48% 08-Sep-91 13:01:54 -lh5- 7A17 3DObj.ReadMe
-------- ------  ---
   99881  42680  57%         6 file(s)


       The above was the READ.ME included with the original archive.

  The objects have been converted to IMAGINE format by the use of X-obj,
then converted and fixed by TTDDD and then read, and written by Imagine 1.1.

            This should insure a good conversion in most cases.

                       These objects are shareware.

                             -- Steven Webb --

Only  ///|Steven Lee Webb  +---------------------------------------+  /\__Luxo|
Amiga/// |CSU - Comp. Sci. |  11-XAV a edisni deppart ma I !pleH   |  \\ /\ Jr|
 \\\///  |Amiga 500-5M Ram |     [e-mail]     |  /|/\ _  |
  \XX/   |50M Hard Drive   +---------------------------------------+ // \ (_) |

##

Subject: Re: Edge Attirbutes
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 91 9:57:48 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
> > Have you tried selecting just the edges around the valley and button wells,
> > then altered the attributes to remove phong shading? I
>
>     Unfortunatly it doesn't allow for this. I'll see what happens if I turn
> Phong off altogether, but doubtless the result will probably be worse. Then I'll
> try your idea of seperate objects. Thanks.

    This might work:  Make the two halves of the mouse.  Pick/Select
the top half.  Use Pick Points and Drag Box.  Multi pick all of the
points except those on the bottom plane of the half-mouse object.
Delete the picked points.  Go back to Pick Object. You now have a planar
object in the shape of the bottom of the top half of your mouse. In
Attributes, turn phong off, save this object.  Do the same thing with
the top plane of the bottom half of the mouse.  Reload the top half and
its plane, group them, do the same with the bottom half and its plane.
If it works, you ought to get rounded edges for the contours of the
mouse, and sharp edges at the "valley".  I think.  Maybe... ;-)

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Green glass & Wine Attributes
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1991 14:04 MDT
From: [e-mail]

[Stuff Deleted]

>Enought greasing, to the question:
>
>I am working on a project that includes a wine bottle.
>The problem is, I cannot get the right green color on the glass.
>I have experimented with spheres and different settings but the result
>is not what I want, and experimenting is not funny on a stock A2000.
>
>Any help is useful, and suggestions on how to make red wine inside the
>bottle is also welcome. No floating liquid, it just have to be there inside.
>
>Keep on rendering...

>- Goran
>--
>Goran Ehrsson                              |      /// Imagine Me and my Amiga.
>[e-mail]                            |     /// The relationship grows
>...!uunet!mcsun!sunic!abalon!goran         | \\\/// in three dimensions.
>Abalon AB, Box 11129,161 11 Bromma,SWEDEN. |  \XX/

Ok, I just got through doing this myself and here are the attributes I came up
with for a good wine-bottle-green glass and a wine color:

John's wine-bottle-green glass:        &      Wine:

Color  : 10 49 9                              Color  : 50 10 10
Reflect: 15 20 15                             Reflect: 0 0 0
Filter : 205 230 205                          Filter : 255 110 110
Specul : 235 255 235                          Specul : 255 0 0
Dither : 50                                   Dither : 50
Hardn  : 230                                  Hardn  : 200
Rough  : 0                                    Rough  : 0
Shine  : 0                                    Shine  : 0
Refraction: 1.5                               Refraction: 1.33

This should give you a starting point at least, but it worked well for my
still.  When it is done I will upload it. (I am working on the grapes ;-)
Have fun,

John Zollinger
[e-mail]
UltraMedia Systems



##

Subject: New pic on Hubcap
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 91 23:25:13 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

I bought the October 1991 issue of the magazine .info, and I laughed
when I read the blurb "About The Cover" on the contents page. The cover
showed a raytrace made by Real-3D, a new raytracer, and showed the power
of it's boolean  operations. However, the description read "This
bi-textured object would be nearly impossible to create accurately with
any other Amiga modelling software." Heh, I guess they didn't know that
Imagine has boolean operators as well!

Creating the scene took only about five minutes to set up ( It is
really a simple object, to be honest). The picture was rendered in
overscan HAM, and took about 30 minutes to raytrace on my A3000. A
scanline version took about 2 minutes. Anyway, compare the picture
with your .info cover!

-Steve


PS, geez, no new uploads lately. C'mon guys!


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                     [e-mail]
------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: Edge Attirbutes
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 12:44:05 PDT
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

>
> > Have you tried selecting just the edges around the valley and button wells,
> > then altered the attributes to remove phong shading? I
>
>     Unfortunatly it doesn't allow for this. I'll see what happens if I turn
> Phong off altogether, but doubtless the result will probably be worse. Then I'
ll
> try your idea of seperate objects. Thanks.

The best way I have found to selectively "turn off" phong shading is to trick
the phong algorithm into creating a corner where I want it.  Since phong will
always smooth adjacent planes that share a common edge, if you need a corner
you just need two touching planes with their own edges or an extra set of
edges/faces very close together.

Slice could be used to cut the groove in the side of the mouse.  Then the mouse
and the indented groove would be separate objects and not be affected by the
smoothing.

I would be difficult to add additional polygons on your existing object (you
would have to use Fracture).  If you started over, you could modify the cross
sections for your Skin so that each corner that you don't want smoothed you add
an extra edge on each side of the point that defines the corner as shown below
(. & ' are points).  The flat sides will remain flat and only the cluster
of three points (two edges) at each corner (which can be on top of each other)
will be smoothed.

Original edges:                New edges:

       |                |
       |                |
       .__.                :._..
          |                    '
       .__.                .._.:
           |                '
       |                |

This technique adds complexity to your model, but is the only way I have found
to control the phong shading precisely.  It is also useful when you need to
create a subtle, but defined edge or crease betwen two curved surfaces (such as
the fender on some cars).  A nice side effect of this technique is that by
creating a very small corner that is smoothed, you can get nice highlights on
the edges and corners even though the object still appears to be "square".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Re: Mirror'd objects?
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 17:26:30 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
> In a message dated Sun  8 Sep 91 05:05, "SYSTEM MANAGER" <[e-mail]
> wrote:
>
>  SYS> How does one make a mirror of an object?  For example, suppose a
>  SYS> model the
>  SYS> left wing of an airplane how do I turn it into a right wing?
>
> Pick and Select the object, copy it, paste it, select it, and then bring up
> the transformation requestor, and scale it -1 in the apporpirate direction.
> If you want to mirror the object in the FRONT view, scale the X dimension by
> -1. If you want to mirror the object in the RIGHT view, scale the Y dimension
> by -1. If you want to mirror the object in the TOP view in the up/down axis,
> scale the object in the Z dimension by -1.
>
> You should end up with two objects that are mirrors of each other.
>
>
> -- Via DLG Pro v0.975b
>
    This is an example of what's so great about this list! Someone
always has a nice elegant way of doing something in Imagine that I would
never in a million years have thought of.  Thanks for the tip!

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Re: Imagine mailing list
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 91 16:47:14 EDT
From: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Kevin Quinlan) says:

>Thanks again for the info. I'm looking forward to exploring my creative
>side. (Or at least discovering whether or not I have a creative side!! ;^)

You might be VERY surprised. I am a LOUSY artist. I can't draw anything
but smiley faces and the second grade crayon-art with a house and a spiral
corkscrew of smoke coming out of a chimney. However, with Imagine
I can create real pictures! One of the most surprising and satisfying
things I've EVER felt was when someone in a USENET post referred to
me as an "Amiga artist". It's good to know that sometimes a medium (like
3D) can give you the ability to make a talent you never knew you had reveal
itself.

Hope you enjoy Imagine, Kevin, and welcome to the list!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: Planets...
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 20:59:14 PDT
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

 Sorry to dredge up an ooooooold subject, but a while back, Steve talked about
 doing things like planets with craters and the like...and he said you had to
 do a flat map, since it would get distorted... Well, I had a pseudo-idea.
 Since the picture of craters (pits, whatever) is going to get distorted at the
 top and bottom, couldn't you (if you were bored) make th picture so that the
 craters and features are more squashed at the top and bottom, therefore they
 would be round when stretched out on the top and bottom due to the wrap. (Gee,
 could I beless understandable??!!) Just a thought. I don't know if this would
 work either in theory or in practice, since I can't do a whole lot of
 brushmapping. I ought to try it again though, I just upgraded to the new
 version, and have a *teeny* bit more RAM to play with now.

 BTW, whatever happened to the Rooms project? Did I blink and miss it? Is it
 being rendered? Eh? What's the scoop?


 Thanks in advance.

Daryl Bartley
Surviving staff: AnimeCon '91
Thank you for your hard cooperation.


##

Subject: Re: Edge Attirbutes
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 20:51:05 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

In a message dated Mon  9 Sep 91 19:45, "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>
wrote:


 JL> The best way I have found to selectively "turn off" phong shading is
 JL> to trick
 JL> the phong algorithm into creating a corner where I want it.  Since
 JL> phong will
 JL> always smooth adjacent planes that share a common edge, if you need a
 JL> corner
 JL> you just need two touching planes with their own edges or an extra
 JL> set of
 JL> edges/faces very close together.

There are some situations where this technique does not quite work. In fact
the modeller has changed subtly from version 1.0 to 1.1. The modeller will
not automatically MERGE objects to delete common edges and points, which can
really ruin your day if it does it to an object you have spent hours on.

For example, lets say you want to create a chess pawn by spinning it. You can
add lines to an axis, being careful to have two coincident points in the
outline where you want a sharp edge, and let the phong shading smooth the
rest. Under 1.0, this would work, and you could spin out a very complex
object with many sharp/smooth edge combinations this way. Now under 1.1, the
modeller will MERGE the points before they are spun out, and you end up with
an object that has no sharp edges.

Another example is, lets say you have created an object with sharp edges,
(meaning coincident edges and points) by combining several object with the
JOIN command. So far so good - the edges will stay sharp. But, if you try to
SLICE that object with another, the modeller will MERGE the points and you
end up with poop again.

A case in point, I was creating a wheel for a flywheel piston combination,
and I created this nice wheel with a raised lip (all seperate pieces for a
sharp edge) and a beveled center. I then created a beveled hole object and
positioned copies all around the interior of the wheel. Everything had been
created with seperate pieces so that I could have smooth bevels with sharp
edges. When I SLICED the whole thing together, the modeller MERGED all the
edges, and when rendered the wheel looked like something melted instead of
something hard-edged and glittery. I had to start from scratch and learn from
the mistake...

I have found that if you never join the seperate pieces of an object until
you are FINISHED modelling it, everything will stay nice for you.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.975b

--- James Hastings-Trew    telepro![e-mail] ---
->  If everyone in China jumped at the same time <-  subliminalmessagewith
->      would they bring back TWIN PEAKS?        <-  subtlebutdeviousplan.

##

Subject: Re: Hmmm
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 17:32:13 CDT
From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <[e-mail]>

> From: "Marc Rifkin" <[e-mail]>
> I have a logo that I want to appear in a blast of light, so I took the
> edges and scaled them to be very deep.  Then I saved two copies of
> the extended edges- one with a transparency of around 200 200 200 and
> the other fully transparent.  So I drop in the first object and have it
> morph into the 2nd, thus giving this disapating beam effect.
> Nope.
> Instead, some of the polygons do fade away, but the majority transform
> into an opaque black. Could someone please explain what little
> trick or bug I have encountered?

If I understand the effect that you are trying to get, an easier way
might be to animate a linear or radial texture to the object with one
of the colors transparent.  Actually, after much searching I found an
old but fascinating message addresses this.  I found this in the
Imagine Compendium a message from Steve Worley.  I'll repeat a part of it
here:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

XXXX. TEXTURES, by Steve Worley (a full treatise on the topic):

....

The most useful textures are probably wood and linear. Wood can
do a lot of powerful effects, and linear is useful everywhere. The
other textures are useful, too, of course, but I use linear and wood
the most. There are a lot of impressive things you can do by abusing
textures :-) Here's a fun one:
 o  Create an object. A long logo works great. Color it and texture it
    any way you want.
 o  Add a linear texture, set the Z transition width to about 20% of the
    object length. Put the texture axis way over to one end, oriented
    towards the center of the logo or whatever. Make the color of the
    texture be black, no reflection, and 255 255 255 filter. Yes, completely
    transparent. Make sure the linear texture is the last one if you
    already have some other textures on the object.
 o  Render. You should have basically an invisible object, since the
    linear texture is completely transparent and covers the whole
    logo. Fix the axis if its pointed the wrong way.
 o  Copy the object. Move the texture axis way to the other side, oriented
    the same way. Save it with a DIFFERENT filename. Test render. It should
    look just like your normal object without a funky linear texture.
    It should certainly NOT be transparent.
 o  The fun part. In the action editor, morph object one into object two.
    The only change is the texture axis, so Imagine will interpolate
    its location from one end of the logo to the other for each frame.
    Make the animation at least 10 frames, preferably 20. You can render
    in scan- it'll work just fine.
    What happens is the linear transition band "flies" across the logo,
    fading the logo in as it moves from one side to the other. It's an
    impressive way to introduce an object into a scene! It is also pretty
    easy to do... 10 minutes tops.
Textures are really powerful, and if you haven't played with them, START!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hope this helps :)


         __         Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XLib'er/Amigan]
\\ /\\ /\\ //_       [e-mail]          MDSSC - Houston
 \/--\// \//__       Hobby:"Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and
     //                     Animations To Support Christian Endeavors"

##

Subject: Real Mirror
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 22:57:40 -0600
From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <[e-mail]>

    Has anyone got a method (or attribute) for making a real mirror? One t
that consists of a sheet of glass with a silver coating? I want to mess around
with some 2-way mirror stuff. Thanks!

    Chris

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~       Chris Hurtt       ~  Computer Science  ~         This Space       ~
~         isis.cs.du.edu  ~  Applications in   ~          For Rent        ~
~         tramp.colorado  ~  Fine Arts Major   ~      (303)-466-9259      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: Hmmm Revisited
Date:    Wed, 11 Sep 91 15:36 EDT
From: "Marc Rifkin" <[e-mail]>

Thanks to those who gave advice, but my problem persists regardless.
I replaced the logo with a long box and it worked fine which leads
me to believe that somehow my logo got messed up in some way.  It
seems that some of the faces cannot be made transparent.
I had a similar problem where I could not get Phong to take effect
on another object. (I could set it on, but it would not render smooth).

Anyone?
Marc Rifkin, [e-mail]
Computer Graphics and Integrative Technology, Penn State Univ.
Dedicated to the pursuit of happiness and good renderings.

##

Subject: Re: Hmmm Revisited
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 17:55:59 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Marc Rifkin writes:


>Thanks to those who gave advice, but my problem persists regardless.
>I replaced the logo with a long box and it worked fine which leads
>me to believe that somehow my logo got messed up in some way.  It
>seems that some of the faces cannot be made transparent.
>I had a similar problem where I could not get Phong to take effect
>on another object. (I could set it on, but it would not render smooth).

About Phong- make sure to MERGE your object, so that common faces
are sure to share the same edges and not duplicate edges that have the
same location.

I'll guess your logo had bad starting attributes. Remember that ALL
attributes morph with an object, not just transparency. If you
morph from color=black, transparency=invisible to a color=yellow,
transparency=none object, you WILL see black faces. Try morphing
with only the transparency changing.

If you want fun and exciting entrances, Wayne was right, linear
textures would work great! Here's another fun linear texture trick.
 Make an extruded tube of your logo that is REALLY long. Add TWO
linear textures with the Z axis facing backwards.  make the first
texture color the object a solid red, the second a transparent red.
Put the z width of both to -zero- and the first at the front of your
object and the second a bit into the tube, as far as you want your
final object to be thick. Save this object. Now move the second
texture about 50 "logo thicknesses" back with the same texture
settings but a z transition width of maybe five "logo thicknesses".
Set the second texture z transition to about one "logo thicknesses"
and a position about 2 "logo thicknesses" in front of the back
texture. Save this second object. The default attributes for both
objects should be complete filter so they are invisible.

Anyway, take these two objects and morph from one to the next. Loads
of fun!! You get a fuzzy blob flying at you and it finally condenses into
a sharply defined logo right where you want it. Boom, instant
dramatic entrance!

 Sorry if this description is a little brief- if you have trouble you're
welcome to ask for help.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Hmmm
Date:    Tue, 10 Sep 91 10:41 EDT
From: "Marc Rifkin" <[e-mail]>

Just when I thought it was safe to render with Imagine...

I have a logo that I want to appear in a blast of light, so I took the
edges and scaled them to be very deep.  Then I saved two copies of
the extended edges- one with a transparency of around 200 200 200 and
the other fully transparent.  So I drop in the first object and have it
morph into the 2nd, thus giving this disapating beam effect.
Nope.
Instead, some of the polygons do fade away, but the majority transform
into an opaque black. Could someone please explain what little
trick or bug I have encountered?

Thanks.

Marc Rifkin, [e-mail]
Computer Graphics and Integrative Technology, Penn State Univ.
"Is it safe?" "No, it's not safe."

##

Subject: earth and moon anim
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 14:35:05 edt
From: David Tiberio <[e-mail]>

  Todd, try joining or groupinh the moon and the Earth, since the moon
revolves around the earth equal to the earth's rotation. Then rotate the
earth.

David Tiberio DDD MEN

##

Subject: Imagine 2.0
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 14:05:58 EDT
From: [e-mail]

I've been given permission to distribute some limited information
about Imagine 2.0.

1) It is being worked on as we speak.

2) 2.0 will not be a simple software update. It will be a changed
   program, and come with a new manual.

3) Since this is a major revision and there is a new manual, there
   will be an upgrade fee. This fee has not been set yet, but is
   not going to be 5 or 10 dollars, and is not going to be 100.

How's that for fuzzy answers?

I will be demonstrating Imagine 2.0 live and in person on Tuesday,
November 5th, at the FAUG (First Amiga User's Group) meeting
in Palo Alto, California.  Yes, you, too, can see Imagine 2.0 in
just 55 days...

I CAN NOT say anything about features, documentation, price, release
date, or just about anything else.

Yes, I have a beta copy. No, I can't say anything about it.  You might
have noticed that I've been awfully quiet when people have been
talking about 2.0 and what they would like to see in it.

It is still not too late for new features to be added to 2.0- if
you have any suggestions, email them to me privately and I'll pass
them along to Impulse, no promises, but you never know what they'll
decide to add.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Re: New pic on Hubcap
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1991 14:55:20 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] (Steve Worley) writes:


>I bought the October 1991 issue of the magazine .info, and I laughed
>when I read the blurb "About The Cover" on the contents page. The cover
>showed a raytrace made by Real-3D, a new raytracer, and showed the power
>of it's boolean  operations. However, the description read "This
>bi-textured object would be nearly impossible to create accurately with
>any other Amiga modelling software." Heh, I guess they didn't know that
>Imagine has boolean operators as well!

    I haven't seen the picture, nor do I have any connection to
the developers of Real3D and I agree with you that this object could likely
be easily made with Imagine (like I say, I haven't seen it). However, credit
should go where it's due. Real3D handles boolean operations quite
differently than Imagine. Infact many would say that Real3D has *true*
boolean operations whereas Imagine just "cookie cuts". The difference
is that Real3D has AND(AB), AND NOT(AB), EOR(AB + AB), and DIVIDE (AB+AB)
operations and most importantly, with a built-in "cleanup" operation.
An added feature of Real3D's boolean operations is that object1 can
leave behind or "paint" object2 with it's texture at the place of contact
thus giving a bi-textured object. While I can sometimes see the
advantage of cookie cutting and having all the pieces to play with,
I would still find (IMHO) the boolean operations in Real3D more
sophisticated and in most cases, more useful in the modelling process.

--stephen

>Creating the scene took only about five minutes to set up ( It is
>really a simple object, to be honest). The picture was rendered in
>overscan HAM, and took about 30 minutes to raytrace on my A3000. A
>scanline version took about 2 minutes. Anyway, compare the picture
>with your .info cover!

>-Steve


>PS, geez, no new uploads lately. C'mon guys!


>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve Worley                                     [e-mail]
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265

##

Subject: Re: New pic on Hubcap
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1991 15:29:14 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

Just a note: I don't want to be seen as contradicting Steve, here.
I would be the first one to say that .info has been giving Impulse
products a bum wrap since it's early days. I only wanted to point
out that there is a significant difference between what Impulse
referrs to as a boolean operation and what Real3D does with it's
booleans. Again, I would be inclined to say that Real3D has true
boolean operations whereas nor other Amiga modeller (to my knowledge)
yet does.  Based on what Steve says about the reference in .info though,
it also appears that they are not well versed on Imagine and it's
modelling capabilities.

--stephen
--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265

##

Subject: Boolean operations
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 91 12:53:57 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Steve Menzies says:

>I only wanted to point out that there is a significant difference
>between what Impulse referrs to as a boolean operation and what Real3D
>does with it's booleans.

Steve is absolutely correct- there is a significant difference between
the Real-3D and Imagine method of boolean object creation. The main
difference is what level the operation takes place at.

In Imagine, you use Slice to seperate objects into subgroups of
intersection and non- intersection. Then these subgroups can be picked
through manually to find the intersection of the objects, the "hole"
where one object but not the other is, and any other combination.  The
crucial part is that this takes place at the object level- you
actually get a final object with points and faces are a result.

In Real-3D the process takes place at RENDER time. The process of
raytracing lends itself to boolean operations with objects- it is
quite common in many renderers (not on the Amiga.. :-)). Basically,
each ray will hit an object and you can continue the ray's projection
to find out if the location which the ray hit is in one object,
another, both, neither, etc.  This allows you to decide whether to use
this hit or not. If you don't, the ray is NOT reflected or anything,
but continues. This allows you to set up two objects and render only
their intersection very easily, as well as the other combinations,
like one object and not the other, in either but not both, and so on.
These combinations can be described by mathematica terms like A and B.
B and not A, not A and not B and such. These are called Boolean
expressions, which explains why this object intersection trick uses
the same name.

Which is better? The Real-3D approach slows rendering, but it allows for
EXCELLENT definition of intersection surfaces. The biggest advantage is
that any objects can intersect- even two perfect primative spheres. Also,
there is little setup bother. You just say "intersect these two" and
it's ready to render. The "stage" setup won't show the intersection,
though, it only is shown when you raytrace.

Imagine's method is much tougher to implement, but does not slow down
rendering. It also requires more work from the user, since you have to
sort though the slice products for the parts you want. However, the
Imagine method has one MAJOR advantage in that you actually GET the
object formed by the intersection or whatever. You could then morph
this object and treat it as it's own entity. This gives you an enormous
amount of control.

Steve Menzies is absolutely right- the Real 3D and Imagine "boolean
operators" are not the same. However, Imagine's is MUCH more powerful
at the expense of making  more work for the user.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



##

Subject: Re: Boolean operations
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1991 07:48:01 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Menzies)

[e-mail] writes:


>Steve Menzies says:

>>I only wanted to point out that there is a significant difference
>>between what Impulse referrs to as a boolean operation and what Real3D
>>does with it's booleans.

>Steve is absolutely correct- there is a significant difference between
>the Real-3D and Imagine method of boolean object creation. The main
>difference is what level the operation takes place at.
>stuff deleted]

>In Real-3D the process takes place at RENDER time. The process of
>raytracing lends itself to boolean operations with objects- it is
>quite common in many renderers (not on the Amiga.. :-)). Basically,
> [more stuff deleted]
>-Steve

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well steve, you've added another dimension here. I must admit, I have
yet to see the actual procedure used in Real3D. I was only going on what
I had been told about the Real3D booleans and was drawing assumptions.
These assumptions were based on my own experience using boolean operations
on SoftImage running on a PI. Those operations indeed, edited the object
itself and cleaned up afterwards. This object could be further edited. This
is infact what I referred to as true boolean operators and I assumed that
this was the implimentation in Real3D. Clearly, I was unaware that there
was another way. I know boolean operations were implimented on Wavefront
and saw a couple of demos of the proceedure. They too were used directly
on the object during the object editing process. If Real3D is doing it
at Render time, I agree that this too, is not the MOST interesting
implimentation of the process. (well, I find it interesting :) , but
I'm left wondering how useful it is )
    Is anyone using Real3D ?? Care to make a comment or two??

--stephen


--
Stephen Menzies
#Internet: [e-mail]
#Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265

##

Subject: TDDD
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 91 07:44:12 CST
From: shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)

Well, as you've no doubt noticed, I don't have the same account I had
before.  Getting the feeds on my home machine is really nifty though :-)

In any event, the only drawback is not having FTP access. I figured I'd
just rough it.  But a friend who is a major Imagineer (he has the only,
I think, Imagine anim on the 2nd Amiga World video - The Burning Desire),
asked me if I'd ever heard of TDDD.  Well, obviously I've heard of it
ad infinitum, but I can't get it for him now that I have no FTP access.
Can some kind soul FTP TDDD (and any related files) for me and e-mail
it to me?  We would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks.

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Rick Tillery            uunet.uu.net!uokmax!occrsh!shrapnel!rtillery |
|                                                                       |
| "I'd rather be ray-tracing...and with my multitasking Amiga, I AM!!!" |
|  ========== Always willing to trade 24 bit and/or GIF pics ========== |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/

##

Subject: Re: Hmmm Revisited
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 91 07:39:12 CST
From: shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)

:I had a similar problem where I could not get Phong to take effect
:on another object. (I could set it on, but it would not render smooth).
:

I had the same problem with a platefull of the fruit up on hubcap (back
when I had FTP access).  I thought it was just me :-)

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Rick Tillery            uunet.uu.net!uokmax!occrsh!shrapnel!rtillery |
|                                                                       |
| "I'd rather be ray-tracing...and with my multitasking Amiga, I AM!!!" |
|  ========== Always willing to trade 24 bit and/or GIF pics ========== |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/

##

Subject: VANIM maker program wanted
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 91 11:38:06 BST
From: jerry cullingford <[e-mail]>

Does anyone know where I can find a program to produce VANIM format
(disk-based) animations, as used by Vista Pro? or a program that will
play ANIM ones from disk, instead of memory?

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer>     [phone] |   ,-|--
| [e-mail] (was [e-mail]) or [e-mail]      x3203 |   \_|__
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \___/

##

Subject: Re: [T]TDDD
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 91 07:24:57 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis ~)

>>>>> On Thu, 12 Sep 91 07:44:12 CST, rtillery@[e-mail] (Rick Tillery) said:

Rick> ...asked me if I'd ever heard of TDDD.
Rick> Well, obviously I've heard of it ad infinitum, but I can't get it
Rick> for him now that I have no FTP access.

    Ad infinitum?  Gosh, I wish it were that popular!  :-)

    I'm assuming here that you are referring to TTDDD (Textual Three
Dimension Data Description), right?  The last Turbo SIG Newsletter also
referred to it as "TDDD", which is the actual format read and written by
Turbo Silver and Imagine.  I just made it ASCII text and wrote some
object-manipulation code.  They also said my name was Greg.  Oh, well.
At least they didn't have to worry about whether it was one `n' or two!
:-)

Rick> Can some kind soul FTP TDDD (and any related files) for me and
Rick> e-mail it to me?  We would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks.

    Yes, I would be happy to.  TTDDD.zoo contains the original
distribution, and TTDDDLIB contains (at present) a bunch of utilities
(currently running on Unix machines) that read TDDD files, read/write
TTDDD files, write PostScript isometric views of objects (also in
FrameMaker MIF format), create Rayshade input decks, and a few other
neato things.  :-)

    As usual, I would very much appreciate it if those that find the
package(s) useful register the shareware with me.  The suggested
donation is $10.  More details are in the package itself.

                            -- Glenn Lewis

[e-mail] | These are my own opinions... not Intel's

##

Subject: Imagine locking up
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 91 12:06:38 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

Hi, I'm new to the mailing list, and I was wondering if someone could help me.  Sometimes when I click on an "OK" gadget in a LOAD/SAVE requester, Imagine seems to lock up.  Not all the time just from time to time.  It dosen't seem to do this if I just hit return instead of clicking on "OK".  I was wondering if anyone
else had a simular problem, or is it just me?


--- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
E-mail: [e-mail]
system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8

##

Subject: Re: A Question or two for you Mark
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 91 15:44:18 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

Manjit Bedi writes:
> By the way, I like how replied to that
> guy a week ago in comp.sys.amiga.graphics.

Thanks, I even enjoyed writing it :-)

> Have you been outputting your stuff to video and
> combining it with other video sources?

I have not composited live video with computer graphic animation, other than
simple luma keying which is provided by the Video Toaster.

> Have you ever seen the video for Pacific 202 by 808 State? In this video,
> they combined video of people with computer graphics or I should I say
> mixed the two.

I'm afraid I haven't seen it. There are many ways in which video can be
combined with graphics/animation: Video as a background, video mix
(50% dissolve), luma key, chroma key, and mattes. Matting is perhaps the
most common profesional technique for high-end graphics/video compositing.
Mattes are more or less a video stencil that instructs a video switcher
which video source to use for any part of the picture. These mattes may
change from frame to frame in synch with the video and animation. It is
not uncommon to have several mattes for a complex effect (one for each part
being composited in). Very similar techiques are used extensively in film
special effects.

> I would like to try to acheive similar results as in this video.

Not having seen it, I have a tough time guessing what methods and effects were
being used and how to implement them on a low-cost Amiga set-up. Unless you
have access to alot of expensive equipment, you are pretty much limited to
basic graphics overlay and/or low-end chroma-keying (using the new chroma-key
product for the Amiga). For overlay, simply black out those parts of your
animation where video is to show through. All Amiga genlocks provide this
kind of functionality. Chroma-keying allows the opposite, overlaying the
video on top of the graphics and the video will be transparent where ever
the specified video chroma value (typically a vey specific color blue) is
present.

> The computer graphics part could be done with a DCTV and some software
> like ADPRO.

What did you have in mind for ADPro? How does it fit into the picture? If
you were thinking of using it to convert images to DCTV format, it is
unecessary. As for DCTV, it is great as a low cost full color video paintbox
and animation display device. However, to the best of my knowledge, it
remains incompatible with most Amiga genlocks (including the Toaster).
Colorburst would work but then you are kind of stuck for animation output
presently. There are a few possibilities with low-end video gear but now
we are in the thousands of dollars. Digital Creations has said, however,
that they would address the genlock problem.

> And being able to digitise a video source; one could sort of kludge
> effects of live video and computer graphics together.

Except with a 10 second digitize time, it will no longer be LIVE :-)

> To my utter surpirse I received a DCTV today at the office from
> Creative computers. Guess who won't sleep tonight!

That's for sure. Since I got my Toaster and DCTV, my wife complains that
I have a mistress.

Anyway, if you have any more specific video compositing/effects questions,
feel free to ask.
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  |
| --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   |
|      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   |
|     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   |
|                                                                          |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Ocean Sunrise meets the splash
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 91 16:56:35 -0400
From: [e-mail] (BRANHAM,JOSEPH FRANKLIN)

I actually got a passable splash animation working. For the longest time,
I had the same problem Steve Worley had of having the splash seem to defy
a few physical laws.

You need to use a high point for the splash exactly like the one in your
tutorial. For the next object to morph to, take the model of the high splash,
bring the concave curve in the wave out , and move the entire main wave of
the splash away from the center.

It also helps a lot if you don't actually let your points move much
horizontally--remember how wave physics work--ideally the points should just
move in the Z direction.

I'll post the u

moo, Frank Branham

##

Subject: Re:  Imagine locking up
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 91 18:00:55 -0400
From: [e-mail] (ESTES,JON-PAUL)

I had this same problem of the system locking up on me when I chose an item
in a load/sae requester.  This was on a 2000 with a GVP SCSI+8 controller.
I noticed the problem only occured when I clicked OK before the program
finished reading the directory from the drive.  I now have a 3000 (and 1.1)
and have not had this same problem.  I do not know if the problem is with
1.0 or the GVP controller.


---Jon-Paul Estes

##

Subject: animation to tape ?
Date: 14 Sep 91  0:12 -0700
From: Andrew Niemann <[e-mail]>

I work at a museum here in Victoria, BC.  We have a show
coming up about the Galapagos Islands:  live video from an
underwater robot via satellite hookup. We're going to try to
do an opening animation sequence with Imagine using a model
of the Galapagos Islands built with Vista Pro. The big
question is how to get the animation to tape!



Is there a way to get 24bit animations using a Sony EVO-9700
(a twin deck HI-8 editing box which we have here) and the
Toaster. Would we need a single frame controller or can it
be done with editing software. I've heard of people using
some kind of software to lay down 10 frames or so of an
image, then back up 9 frames, lay down another 10 frames and
so on, all this via script control. I've also heard of
people doing this manually, but that seems a huge chore.



Or are we better off trying to use DCTV and running an
animation package? I've tried compressing to Anim format and
playing this back but find that the frame rate is too slow
and will vary drastically depending on the amount of change
in adjacent frames. I've also tried the Imagine animation
format to play the DCTV  images and, while this was better,
it still wasn't exactly fast. (This works with Imagine 1.0
but not 1.1)

So what else is there?  I hear that PageFlipper F/X is
supposed to be pretty good.  Will it really go at a good
frame rate?  I've heard it doesn't do full 736 overscan, so
will it still cover the entire screen when projected or are
we going to get a small edge down the sides?



thanks for any info, andy          [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re:  Imagine locking up
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 91 9:14:10 EDT
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

I have locked up Imagine (or Guru'ed it) when I zip around and click on
gadgets too quickly.  I don't remember if that ever happened in the file
requester, but it has happened in the subproject requester.

-John


John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer